Prior to his performance of Mozart’s Piano Concerto No.21 in C Major, K467 at the Lucerne Music Festival, a concert that would be his last appearance with orchestra, Dinu Lipatti was interviewed by Henri Jaton. Swiss Radio archives only possess excerpts of this interview, in which Jaton reminisces about the interview while playing portions of it. However, the entire interview does exist in private hands, and the text is published here complete for the first time. I will first post the audio link on YouTube for the excerpts and a translation of these excerpts, and further down you can read my translation of the entire unedited interview and hear the performance of the Mozart Concerto from that concert.

HJ – Participant at the Lucerne Festival in a concert on the program of which was an important work of the French symphonic repertoire, Lipatti offered me as regards this work, that is Roussel’s Fourth Symphony, the pertinent observations which follow:

Its importance seems rather significant in view of the fact that it brings forth a new element. In its particularly French writing, it seems to me, if I am not mistaken, to reveal a certain Franckist influence. And by this I would say that there is a certain indirect influence of German polyphonic writing. I like it. I cannot judge it completely as one hearing alone is not sufficient to allow me to fully grasp a work, but I like it in that there is a line that is maintained, particularly in the second movement, which is homogeneous yet concise. It seems to be that this is a work destined to be heard by the public at large while bringing pleasure to those who study it and who read the score.

HJ – An ideal interpreter of Mozart’s works, Dinu Lipatti then discussed the nature of the evolution that one finds throughout the cycle of Mozart’s piano concertos:

There is, in my opinion, an even more significant evolution in the polyphonic symphonic writing between the piano and the orchestra in the Mozart Concertos than there is in the solo piano part. It seems that he leaves the Italian influence to touch upon the Germanic. I am thinking now of the last Concerto in C Major of Mozart, which brings to mind in an irresistible manner the first works of Beethoven.

For me, the pianistic characteristics of Mozart’s writing changed less than his general polyphonic approach in the structure of the piano concerto.

HJ – Lipatti brought his elegance to the point that he wrote his own cadenzas for the Mozart Concerto that he was performing that night, and on the subject of which he remarked…

I write my own cadenzas, but only for those Mozart Concertos which do not have any. Otherwise I would not allow myself to act with such impertinence.

If I could improvise them in concert – alas, we can no longer, not having such training in our century – I would obviously prefer to do so. Not being able to do so, I aim to construct a cadenza by improvising it on paper, if I may express myself this way. That is to say, keeping all of the elements of the concerto, not departing from the style as much as possible, yet adding new, post-Mozartian acquisitions, if I may express myself this way, in the pianistic writing. For a cadenza is after all the act of a soloist who is playing, in 1950 on the theme of Mozart, that which comes to him.

The sound of the modern piano has almost nothing in common with the sound of the piano of Mozart’s time. And I find that one must bring into a cadenza the ornaments, the technical advances which have since been acquired, all the while conforming to the composer’s style as regards the harmonic writing.

HJ – In this final interview [sic – Lipatti did one more], I paid hommage not only to the pianist whom we all admire but also to the composer, who revealed his intentions as regards the balance he aimed to achieve between the piano and orchestra in one of his best-received works, the Danses Roumaines:

In the Danses Roumaines, I gave the piano a supporting role, as the orchestra is very large, and in these dances I don’t consider the piano to be anything other than a piano obligato. If, as I hope, I write a piano concerto in the near future, I will aim to do the opposite: that is, have a small orchestra, one of each wind instrument so that each soloist has the freedom to express himself fully, but also so that the piano might have its noble role, that given it by Chopin, from which we ought not to depart today under the pretext of having too large an instrumental ensemble at its side.

HJ – And finally, my dear listeners, we cannot listen without deep emotion to the plans that Lipatti had envisioned as regards his work as a composer. We can even better comprehend the immense loss that we have suffered and the extent to which the death of this artist have robbed us forever of the tremendous joy that he provided us with his endless generosity.

As regards my personal output – I was very ill these past few years – I have composed very little. I have a Quartet for Wind Instruments, a few Melodies, which are almost nothing in terms of production, but this winter I hope to be able to compose more prolifically.

Here is the translation of the complete interview:

HJ: My dear listeners, on the occasion of the rebroadcast of the 2nd orchestral concert of the Lucerne Festival, I had the pleasure of allowing you to hear Ernest Ansermet in person. Today, I am delighted to have been able to bring here, in front of the microphone and by my side, Dinu Lipatti, who will be the soloist in this, the 5th orchestral concert of the Lucerne Festival. Before asking Dinu Lipatti his impressions of the programme, of the works that you will be hearing, I would like to let him know that I believe I can speak for you all in expressing our joy at seeing him today on a path that will lead him to a complete recovery. I will address myself now, ladies and gentlemen, to the composer Dinu, whose output is already deemed important, and ask him his impression of the first work on the program, that is to say Roussel’s Fourth Symphony. My dear Mr. Lipatti, what do you think of this work and what do feel is its place in contemporary French symphonic output?

DL: Its importance seems rather significant in view of the fact that it brings forth a new element. In its particularly French writing, it seems to me, if I am not mistaken, to reveal a certain Franckist influence. And by this I would say that there is a certain indirect influence of German polyphonic writing. I like it. I cannot judge it completely as one hearing alone is not sufficient to allow me to fully grasp a work, but I like it in that there is a line that is maintained, particularly in the second movement, which is homogeneous yet concise. It seems to be that this is a work destined to be heard by the public at large while bringing pleasure to those who study it and who read the score.

HJ: You just mentioned the Franckist influence. Do you not find that it manifests quite clearly? There is perhaps even a co-relation in the tonality of A Major in the last movement of the symphony.

DL: Yes, exactly. It is that which made my think of it a little bit.

HJ: Do you not see a kinship, even a close one, with the finale of the famous Sonata for Violin and Piano?

DL: Yes, yes, now that I think about it, I believe that there is a rather strong connection.

HJ: My dear Mr. Lipatti, perhaps you would allow me to address myself more directly to the pianist Lipatti. As I see that you have programmed a Mozart Concerto, may I ask you, who knows the Mozartian repertoire so well, if we can detect an evolution as regards the pianistic writing in the Mozart concertos, starting from the first ones, for example, up to those from the final period, the B-Flat Major, the C Major which you will be performing?

DL: There is, in my opinion, an even more significant evolution in the polyphonic symphonic writing between the piano and the orchestra in the Mozart Concertos than there is in the solo piano part. It seems that he leaves the Italian influence to touch upon the Germanic. I am thinking now of the last Concerto in C Major of Mozart, which brings to mind in an irresistible manner the first works of Beethoven.

HJ: But the pianistic writing, the virtuosic elements, do they seem to be built and constructed in the same way in all of Mozart’s Concerti?

DL: Yes. It seems to me that he is rather devoted to his earliest writing. For me, the pianistic characteristics of Mozart’s writing changed less than his general polyphonic approach in the structure of the piano concerto.

HJ: Yes. And I think that you must have deeply analyzed this pianistic writing since, I believe, you are the composer of the cadenzas of the concerto that we will hear, those of the first and last movements?

DL: Exactly. I write my own cadenzas, but only for those Mozart Concertos which do not have any. Otherwise I would not allow myself to act with such impertinence.

HJ: And to what guidelines do you refer, in general, for the composition of a cadenza? Have you taken the principle of improvisation that was the traditional approach of the time, or is it for you a thoroughly deliberate structure, a pre-determined design?

DL: If I could improvise them in concert – alas, we can no longer, not having such training in our century – I would obviously prefer to do so. Not being able to do so, I aim to construct a cadenza by improvising it on paper, if I may express myself this way. That is to say, keeping all of the elements of the concerto, not departing from the style as much as possible, yet adding new, post-Mozartian acquisitions, if I may express myself this way, in the pianistic writing. For a cadenza is after all the act of a soloist who is playing, in 1950 on the theme of Mozart, that which comes to him.

HJ: And yet I believe that you have also kept in mind the nature of the present-day piano, from which you have drawn more varied possibilities.

DL: Precisely. The sound of the modern piano has almost nothing in common with the sound of the piano of Mozart’s time. And I find that one must bring into a cadenza the ornaments, the technical advances which have since been acquired, all the while conforming to the composer’s style as regards the harmonic writing.

HJ: This awareness of the piano is above all the balance of the piano with orchestra. It seems to me that you already demonstrated this earlier in your Danses Roumaines, which you yourself performed a few years ago, if I remember correctly, under the direction of Ansermet. What would you say was your technique of balancing the solo instrument with the orchestra in this case?

DL: In the Danses Roumaines, I gave the piano a supporting role, as the orchestra is very large, and in these dances I don’t consider the piano to be anything other than a piano obligato. If, as I hope, I write a piano concerto in the near future, I will aim to do the opposite: that is, have a small orchestra, one of each wind instrument so that each soloist has the freedom to express himself fully, but also so that the piano might have its noble role, that given it by Chopin, from which we ought not to depart today under the pretext of having too large an instrumental ensemble at its side.

HJ: You have been speaking of your Danses Roumaines. Have other works followed in its wake?

DL: Alas, very few. As regards my personal output – I was very ill these past few years – I have composed very little. I have a Quartet for Wind Instruments, a few Melodies, which are almost nothing in terms of production, but this winter I hope to be able to compose more prolifically.

HJ: We are delighted to hear that. To conclude, if you would permit me, Mr. Lipatti, to ask about something more current. I believe that at the rehearsal I saw you looking particularly satisfied with the orchestral accompaniment. What do you think of the festival orchestra which, it seems to me, must have a certain degree of flexibility since, as you know, it changes conductors for each symphonic concert?

DL: It is just that which surprises me, which amazes me, as this orchestra, which is in fact a makeshift orchestra as regards its formation, has such stunning homogeneity and integration. For me, the accompaniment of the Mozart was a dream – Karajan accompanied me admirably, and I find that this ensemble gives the impression of being a permanent fixture, as if they worked together the entire year. It’s a wonderful orchestra in all respects.

HJ: Well then, my dear Mr. Lipatti, I do not wish to rob you of your time and I think that you will certainly need to rest before the upcoming concert. I thank you on behalf of all our listeners today, and I am convinced, ladies and gentlemen, that after having heard such a clear and lively explanation of tonight’s programme, that listening to Dinu Lipatti perform will bring you even more pleasure.

This translation © Mark Ainley 2001

And here is the performance of the Mozart Piano Concerto No.21 K.467 from that Lucerne Festival concert of August 23, 1950.